Still can't growl… grrr

[Anonymous]

shape of sound

colour of sound
http://www.flutopedia.com/sound_color.htm

i dont subcribe to the above definitions,
but to me

the shape of a sound – is if you play say mid c, theres lots of ways you can shape that sound – staccato, legatto, growl, flutter, very loud, very soft.
No matter what you do, you are still playing mid c, but shaping it differently, so they do sound different yet same pitch.

the colour of a sound – is whatever shape of sound you are making, you can colour it differently. There’s two common ways of doing it. one way is how in tune or out of tune you play a mid c, as the sax is an out of tune instrument, you could play a mid c slightly overtune, undertune or intune to various degrees similary to someone greeting you in a sad manner, happy manner, excited manner etc. whatever you do, it’s still mid c but coloured differently,

Another way to change the colour of a sound, example if you play a mid c, you can change the colour of mid c, by changing your embouchure while playing mid c. So try playing mid c with an “ooo” embouchure, and then try with an “eeee” embouchure or an “aaaaa” embouchure. You’re still playing mid c, but they are all coloured differently.

you could argue shape and colour are the same.

Don’t get bogged down with all this crap.
At the end of the day just experiment with different variations of playing the same key.

[Martin Pavíček]

Sxpoet, thank you for the answer. Yet one thing is for me still unknown: How much can affect the color tone? I.e. the same musician, the same sax and mouthpiece and reed – what results can be achieved in trying to change the color of the tone? That’s why I do not even know what it makes sense to try – what is possible and what is already beyond the limit … Johnny, though it is already out of the original topic, but could you write any comment about it?

[Martin Pavíček]

I’m adding one post, because some of ways will not show you my previous post (there is probably a bug in paging) – thanks to this unnecessary post, you can scroll to the previous page and read it

[john]

the same player can use another’s instrument with same reed mop etc and sound very different. our sound is mostly coming from us….our air, our embouchure ect.mp, saxophone
still, each player can change certain things with different reeds, mp etc but the greatest thing we have is inside us.

[Martin Pavíček]

Johnny, I understand what you write. But I miss a specific recording where I can listen to how much it is realy possible to change the color of the tone (without changing instrument, mp, reed and of course player :-). Maybe it could be a theme for another lesson?

[Anonymous]

i should have described colour as more to do with shades of going from warm to cold. To play mid c as warm sounding to playing mid c to cold sounding, would be hard to describe. However, when you pick out various music sheets, when you start playing them, you get a sense of feeling that this one sounds warm and happy, and this one sounds cold and foreboding. Colour is akin to the mood of the tune being played which can go from bright to dark sounding. Again there are different mouthpieces and reed combinations, which will make you sound more darker or more brighter. Colour is expression and feeling, if you start playing lots of classical, opera tunes, these really make you more aware of colour and expression, as opposed to just belting out a rock tune.
After 4 yrs of playing, i’m getting more aware of feeling and expression.
This is where it helps to listen to a tune being played several times, to get the mood of the tune, rather than just diving in and playing a monotonous rendition.

[john]

ya, don’t know if I’d use the word color but I think I understand what you’re trying to get at Martin….
If you listen to one of my music videos that is very relaxed and mellow, like Harlem Nocturne then listen to the rocker Urgent there’s definately 2 different approaches and sound I think….is that what you’re talking about?

[Martin Pavíček]

Let me describe it for the last time:
Both of your tracks were recorded on another day, you were in a different mood, you were differnetly warmup, you probably had a different worn reed, maybe you were a bit different in the microphone position, different set of sound filters were on the audio device, it was another temperature and air pressure :-).
I am talking about whether you could within one “session” to play, by example G tone of “warm” and then “cold”. “Round” and then “sharply.” “Irritatingly” and then “honey”. Just change the color / mood / tembr of one tone. And then do the same for tone in the high register. I am interested in flexibility and what can be achieved.
I can not describe it better in English anymore :-(.
P.S .: I had an offer to engage in a “small big band”, but the bandmaster did not take me because my tone is so penetrating, “as a saw” – I do not know if I can do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

the choice of (mouthpiece + reed) combination for a saxophone can make you very dark sounding which is better for playing in a classical music orchestra or very bright sounding which is ideal for some types of jazz bands.

However, there are (mouthpiece + reed) combinations which can make your sax sound extremely louder, so much louder that when you play, your saxophone sound volume, will be heard above all the rest of the saxophone players in a band. Which can be okay, if you are soloist that needs to be heard above everyone else, but not okay, if the band leader wants your sound volume to blend in with the volume of the rest of the sax players. In jazz band, most if not all, of the sax players will play at the same volume.

I had one of these (mouthpiece + reed) combinations, and the sax sound volumd was too loud to play in a small room, and not very easy to play less louder.

I also had a (mouthpiece + reed) combination that was unsuitable to play in a classical music exam, and i had to change the (mouthpiece + reed) combination.

The other thing. I’ve sat in a room and listened to lots of different saxophone students play there saxophone, and saxophone players are just like singers, their tones can vary a lot. And just like singers, if you put a lot of singers together, what you will find is some singers harmonise well together, and some don’t which can ruin the overall sound. You will also find some singers sing so loud they can cut through the rest of the singers and ruin the overall sound.

An experienced band leader has a very good ear, and in a large group of musicians, he can pick out the one person in the group who is out of time with the rest of the musicians, or who is out of tune with the rest of the musicians, or who is not playing the dynamics of a song in keeping with the rest of the musicians (ie playing loud when it should be played softly), or who is articulating sections of the song incorrectly.

If when you are playing, you don’t sound like the rest of the sax players in a group of sax players…. that can be improved by playing alongside other sax players, as what you’ll find is, your brain, will start adjusting your tone to match the rest of the players, and before long, you’ll sound just like them. The samething can be achieved by playing along with the sax player in a backing track.

Most classically trained opera singers can look at a music sheet and know how it should be sung, some can’t .. Pavroti couldn’t, he had to listen how it was sung, before he could sing it.

A big band can be tough to play in, you need full control of dynamics, timing and articulation and being in tune. Jazz bands are really strict with those three.

[Martin Pavíček]

sxpoet thank you. What you write is all true, but it is quite different from what I ask. The problem is not in dynamics, neither in articulation nor in tune, nor as I sound with other players (the test was without others, I played alone). And it was said that my sound is like a saw / sawmill – a bad tone of color. I do not want to fall into hell by testing dozens different combinations of mp + reed – as the singer is able to change the color tone, the saxophonist should be able to change too, I think.
I give it up, my English + google translator is not enough to tell you what I’m about :-(.

[Author]

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