Question regarding keys in your Killer Blues course

[Mike Moran]

Hi, I just purchased your course on Killer Blues.

When learning this material should I be practicing it all keys or just stick with the Bb until I’ve got everything learned in that key? Will it come easier when learning the different keys after learning Bb? If so how so, given that each key has an entirely different fingering?

Regards,

[john]

Good questions…

There’s no harm in jumping to all keys and working on them, you should do that eventually for sure, but I find it easier to really learn the heck out of these exercises in one key because by eventually playing it all really well in that key, when you go on to a new one you’ll already hear it better in your head which can be half the battle, and then it’s just getting your fingers to play it.

Every key will present something different, not saying always a major problem necessarily but some obstacle with a fingering or register jump and so you can always go back and play the lick or scale pattern perfectly in that one key,using it as a sort of measuring stick, if you know what I mean.

[Mike Moran]

Thanks Johnny,

I kinda get how it’s supposed to sound cause I’ve been a guitarist for 18 years so I can hear things quite well musically. I will get the basic blues excercise down in Bb and then work on the other keys before moving on to the next excercise. When you are playing this are you counting the intervals i.e I, bIII, V, bVII to get it ingrained? This what I’m struggling with, on guitar it’s easier cause the intervals always hold the same shape on the fretboard but with the different fingerings for each key on sax you can’t apply that same strategy.

I’m getting the hang of growling now after playing along with the basic blues exercise, I could never do it before but it seems to be coming to me more naturally now 🙂 I think your facial expressions kind of sum up the way you have to feel when doing the growl!

[john]

Yes, the intervals, transposition etc stuff is easier on guitar cause most of the time you just need to go up or down the neck. On sax it’s not a visual thing so we need to get real familiar with all these scales, not so much counting intervals all the time but knowing the scales so well that you just know them, that’s why we practice all scales and the chords going up and down like 1, 3, 5, 8, 5, 3, 1 then 1, 3, 5, 7 etc

For me, and I encourage everyone to get real familiar with the piano keyboard because then it’s a visual thing, since I do play a bit of keys as well I visualize it when I play sax. I think it makes a lot of things like intervals, chords etc easier.

[Mike Moran]

When you say you practice scales and chords going up in 1, 3, 5, 7 etc. do you mean you practice those notes within the scales like arpeggios or do you mean you are harmonizing the scale degrees and playing the relative scale for each of those degrees?

[john]

Yes, the scale arpeggios… so when I go for a riff over a C7 chord in my mind I can see the notes C E G Bb on the piano. It’s not like I’m constantly picturing the keyboard while I’m playing, just at the start to help me get centered around the right notes. Then from there it’s just a matter of relying on whatever other riffs and tricks you can come up with.

That’s why I think the exercises and riffs i’ve laid out are worth learning and memorizing because you can then call upon them when the situation arises – meaning a similar groove and key. Obviously the more you know and learn the better but nail these in one key first.

[Ella Swinbank]

Hi Johnny,

I’m Ella, I came across your website last week and I think its great. I’d love to be able to play like you! I got my sax in January and I’ve been teaching myself to play from beginners books, but they don’t teach a great deal on theory or how to improvise. I purchased the Killer Blues course and I wanted to ask you something about the basic blues scale exercise for alto. I’m thinking its in the key signature of C as there are no sharps or flats, so am I right to think that the exercise is the C Basic Blues scale which would have 3b, 5b and 7b. And if so are the E sharps, C sharps and G sharps accidentals?
I am also totally clueless with the idea of playing over chords, who’s chords am I playing over? is it another instruments chords that I’m soloing over in which case should I transpose all of the written chords? Or is it the written chord name the chord I’m supposed to be playing? Oh dear! I sound really hopeless and confused I don’t know if i’m a lost cause. Am I too old and confused to be starting out at nearly 50? I’d love to be able to play in a band. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.
Ella

[john]

Hi Ella, good for you to start playing the alto! I will try to “unconfuse” you so you can move on with it and have more fun and hopefully start playing in a band.

First of all, the “Basic Blues Scale Exercise” you are referring to is in the key of C, but if you notice right above the title it says Bb saxes. This one is not for you and your alto. The one below it says Eb saxes above the title. This one is for alto and bari sax, and so use this one.
The website section of this is divided into Bb and Eb sections and is so labelled at the top of each section with a large yellow banner so look for that.

So now that you are reading the alto part you don’t need to transpose anything…that’s the whole pointy of playing the right sax part. Everyone gets confused with this stuff at the beginning that’s why I wrote an article about it and recorded a video about it as well. These will help to explain how the saxophone keys all work in relationship to the concert key instruments. All seems complicated at first but once you understand the basic concept it’s not at all.

For now just stick to the exercises in the right section (make sure you’re playing along with the alto part) and learn the scale first, then work out the exercises. These exercises will be the foundation of all your soloing efforts as you move along.

Let me know of you still don’t understand something!

best,
Johnny

[Ella Swinbank]

I see, said the blind man as he walked into the lamp post!!!

Hi Johnny,

Sorry! Thank you for your reply yesterday and allowing me to respond. I understand that the alto is pitched at Eb and to play with other instruments the music needs to be transposed to match the pitch of the other instruments eg concert C, so I would need to be playing 3 steps down in key of A to match the concert C. You have done this for us in the alto exercises, thank you! so I know I need to be playing the exercises for the alto.

My question yesterday was referring to page 17 of the Killer Blues course – Eb saxes, Basic Blues exercise. I was confused why some of the notes were in there. Having looked at it again I’m still confused even though I have now read further down to page 21 and seen the part where you mention that all exercises are in concert Bb so the alto is in G.

So having tried to understand the Blues G scale I wrote it out as: G, A, Bb, B, C, Db, D, E, F, F sharp,
and then I wrote the basic blues scale as: G, Bb, C, C sharp, D and F is that correct?

I think I might be going wrong somewhere as I’m still confused about why there are: D sharp, F sharp, A, G sharp notes in there.

Thank you for trying to help.
Ella

[john]

Oh I now see your confusion…
Those notes are in the riff belonging to the 4 chord which is C. Then the riff changes again in the 5 chord which is D.

In the typical blues progression the first 4 bars are the one chord which in this case is G. Bars 5 and 6 change to the four chord which is C.
Bars 7 and 8 return to the G again. Bars 9 and 10 are the five chord which is D. Then back to G for bars 11 and 12. This is the entire 12 bar blues progression.

Looking at this now I realize I should have written out the progression and it may have made more sense to you, but realistically, I wrote this course for people already playing this type of music and so this theory is already understood. In saying that, I don’t want to discourage you from keeping on it! I will write out the chord symbols for you later so you can see what I’m talking about.

For now just know that these bars contain the same riff, just transposed in their corresponding chord…so 3 different chords (1,4,5) one riff transposed in each of these different keys/chords. Does this make sense now?

[Author]

Posts