Growling tip: more mp – Johnny B Goode

[Jazz Cat]

thanks Johnny for your tips on growling, I’m getting a lot better, getting closer to it, by taking in more mp like you’d suggested.

I was watching your cool Johnny B Goode video on youtube, bought your track and jammed with it today; lots of fun and easy to play… like tequila its one of those that sounds much better with an edge, growl in parts — thanks for all you do, and happy holidays to you and all 🙂

tip: at the intro its fun to play high riff like high C then Eb back to C/Bb then a bit of melody G/F etc

[john]

thanks JC, ya for sure…this stuff needs that extra edge. great that you’re working on that.

[Anonymous]

I’ve never played on a Tenor, so i would assume Tenor mouthpiece’s are bigger than Alto mouthpieces? So you’ve probably got a lot more metal in your mouth to gag on?

On my Alto the actual position of the mouthpiece in my mouth has made no difference on me being able to growl.
The past few months i’ve being playing a lot of jazz/swing music, for which i tend to play with as little mouthpiece in my mouth as possible mainly to get a more breathy sound. The only time i need a bit more mouthpiece is when i’m going above altissimo E and up to the second altissimo G, but that’s very rarely, i only go up there in scales.

[john barrere]

Does choice of mpc and/or tip opening have much effect on ease/difficulty of growling? For example, is an open (~ .100)metal mpc with a big rollover baffle a better/easier choice than an .050 classical hard rubber mpc?

[Anonymous]

Growling has nothing to do with the mouthpiece, or the reed, or the ligature. It’s similar to flutter tonguing. Some people find it easier
than others. It’s no different to why some people sing better than other – it’s all down to the physical design of your body.

if you cant growl or flutter tongue without a mouthpiece in your mouth, i cant see how you are going to do it with a mouthpiece in your mouth.

If you can growl or flutter tongue without a mouthpiece in your mouth, but you cant do it with a mouthpiece in your mouth. Then whats happening is when you hold that mouthpiece betweem your lips, you must be tensing up muscles in your face, or neck, or tongue which is restricting you from growling/flutter tongue.

thats my humble oppionion.

i growled and flutter tongued within minutes of been shown how to do it by my teacher. The only difference in my case is the more i did it, the longer i could do it for – there has been virtually no change in the quality of my growling or flutter tonguing, the change is i can do it for longer periods. Just like when i started out on the sax, i couldn’t hold a note for a count of 4 beats.

[john]

right. it’s a physical thing. some people just can’t roll their R’s and that’s how you flutter tongue.
same for growling, you need to be able to do it without your sax first. then it’s a balance of how much or how little
but just work on growling first. I do have a lesson video explaining in a bit more detail.

[Anonymous]

The first time i picked up a sax, was when my teacher gave me a taster lesson on one of his spare altos, to see if i was interested in playing the sax. That was also the first of many lessons i’m still having on the sax. I am very fortunate as my teacher is also an accomplished sax player, and has played and often plays alongside a lot of the top jazz players in the UK, so he knows his stuff.

The first thing he taught me, was without a sax, he told me to make an “O” shape with my lips, relax all the muscles in the body, and just breathe out and hear the sound of the wind leaving my mouth – face muscles relaxed, throat muscles relaxed, tongue relaxed. Then he told me thats exactly how you should be playing the saxophone.

Then he gave me his sax, and made me repeat it on the sax – this time he just wanted me to hear the sound of the wind from my mouth moving through the body of the sax in an even relaxed flow of air.

Then he started me playing mid “B”, after several attempts i managed to play a sound.

Whats the point of telling all this you might ask?

Ok – four weeks later, i was playing G up to mid C to the usual beginner standard. Then while practicing at home, i started trying out playing higher up, what i discovered was if i tightened up all the muscles in my face, lips etc, i could a fantastic tone, compared to playing with relaxed facial muscles. So i decided to stick with facial tension.

Then when i started playing above middle C i started having lots of problems with higher notes. I went back for a lesson the following week, asked my teacher what the problem was? He made me relearn my first lesson and got me playing relaxed facially. So i had to ditch the fantastic tone that i was getting with mid range notes and play relaxed in all the registers – Result – squeaking disappeared, i could play the higher notes to an acceptable sound.

The next thing i noticed when playing the sax, my lips would turn to jelly after playing for an hour – This leaves you with two options:
A) stop playing and start again the next day
B) tighten up all the face muscles and increase the lips tension and struggle on.

The correct option is A – you have to play relaxed, and let facial muscles strenghten in their own time, just like singers, you don’t overstretch and damage your voice.

Another thing i have noticed, and this maybe age related. I have to warm up before playing the sax, just like singers have to warm up their voice.
It takes me about 10 minutes to loosen up the facial muscles, clear all the crap out my lungs, loosen up the neck tension, get the breathing up to speed, loosen up the jaw muscles, and sometimes my ears have to depop like on airplanes due to air pressure. I just physically can’t pick up a sax and hit the road, The 1st ten minutes is just playing on the mouthpiece, until the reed settles down, the ligature has been adjusted for the best pitch, and the tone on the mouthpiece sounds constant – then i move to the sax. I dont play on the sax until i’m happy with the mouthpiece sound.

A relaxed neck, face and mouth – frees up tongue movement. If you need tension, use the pulling-in stomach muscles when breathing out to hold a steady pitch instead of using lip tension to get a steady pitch. That is harder to do, but gets better with practice.

Final tip – a lot of songs usually have a few sections/bars/measures which are tricky/difficult. When you play these songs, at the back of your mind, you know where the difficult bit is and when it is comming up (ok – you might say if you practice enough you shouldn’t have a problem, doesn’t work like that). The tension starts building up while you are playing, and comes to a head near the tricky passage.

So what happens? The common thing beginners do, is to start tensing up when they get nearer the rough section. Result – its HIT or MISS if they play it right. Seriously what can you do – the only advice i’ve got from my teacher, and his advice is from observations of watching other proffesionals while playing in jazz/swing bands etc – the top players all do the same thing – the train themself to be laid back when they play a difficult section. So if you are learning to play a tricky section, train yourself to CHILL OUT, and get laid back when mastering difficult parts.

[Mel]

sxpoet – great post!

[jake]

There is a lot sxpoet wrote in this post but this applies to all players that want a fat, even, big tone! I have been viewing some other videos on tone as well and one of the MAJOR things that holds players back from achieving the tone they are searching for is TENSION! Great advice you got there sxpoet to go back to the beginning and learn playing relaxed. Once we tighten up and squeeze, the air flow becomes restricted and the dynamics of the sound definitely change for the worse. The tone then falls out of tune, sounds weaker and not as robust, etc. This goes for the altissimo notes as well. Professionals didn’t learn to play over night. It takes time to develop and grow into a sax player. Just like a weight lifter, you don’t start bench pressing 300lbs in your first week, you need to built the muscles and techniques to get to that goal! Unfortunately this lovely instrument that the saxophone is doesn’t always make it so easy!! Fun journey along the way tho, even with all the frustration that goes along with it!!

Gotta say I am really jealous of your instructor sxpoet. There are a couple instructors in my area but seemed geared more towards schools and very beginners. I want a seasoned professional to learn from. Luckily Johnny has provided this outlet for our learning. I have done skype lessons with Johnny in the past. I would be interested in doing more. Do you still offer them Johnny??

Jake

[john]

Jake, I wasn’t able to do them this past year. Although as you know was doing them over the last couple years.
I have had several people ask for skype lessons so I have been saying maybe in the new year when all my other commitments may die down a bit. I love hooking up with people one on one and hopefully help out a bit so I’ll shoot out an email if/when I will take some booking again.

cheers
Johnny

[Author]

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