Skip to main content

Home Alt Forums Repertoire question about music sheets

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 11 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #10057
    Anonymous

      Hi Johnny,
      this is a question about music sheets in general.
      Because i’m doing a grade 3 alto sax exam in december, most of the stuff i have to play in the exam is classical stuff which i haven’t got a problem with.

      what i noticed is most of the classical music sheets are full of dynamics telling the instrumentalist to play softly and then increase the volume as you work through a phrase or start loud and quickly play softly, and then there is lots of forte, piano etc.

      When i browse through sheet music i’ve bought in a music shop that is pop, rock, soul etc.. they hardly make use of any dynamic notation, which i’ve noticed in your sheet music as well .. generaly speaking in terms of how loud/soft and increasing/decreasing volume. It gives me the impression just blast the sax out from start to end?

      is this the general sort of standard for non- classical music?
      i did notice in one of your forum comments you did say plaing in a band you had to play loud in order to be heard, and in terms of different sax’s it made it harder to tell the difference between different sax makes when playing in a band.

      #13834
      john
      Keymaster

        most classical music is not interpretive. you are told exactly how to play in all but very few improvisational bits.
        the type of music I play is quite the opposite. everyone that plays it will have their own interpretation of it so
        I, for the most part don’t put those things on the music. I don’t think you need that kind of guidance because you have several choices of how to play it; from listening to original
        or other recordings, my version of it, and your own way that you hear it or want it to sound.
        Now I know that a few folks might disagree and think I’m perhaps short changing you because I leave this type of stuff out but for these blues, pop rock type of stuff I believe it should have as much room as possible for self expression…. certainly dynamics is a big part of it. I’ve always enjoyed a bare-bones skeleton type of music chart with only the melody and chords which makes it easier to learn and then add my own dynamics and other embelishments. If I was to notate some of the embelishments that I do it would make the notation look way more difficult to play, and for the most part, I have most people ask me to keep things more simple as far as the tunes go.
        I think of it as a canvas with a lot of room to add things, whereas a classical piece is not that type of thing at all.

        #13836
        jake
        Participant

          I love that analogy Johnny! Your music is like a blank canvas. When I play music now I can hear various runs and musical ideas that fit in between the main rhythm (idea) of the song. It is nice to be able to use that creativity and make a piece our own. When I play music with other musicians, I have to use creativity because most of the stuff we play had no original sax in the music to begin with. That’s where knowing the various arpeggios and scales are a MUST!
          Sxpoet, as far as the volume you mentioned, I believe Johnny was addressing some of my posts. When I did some recordings with my guitar buddy my sax overtook the songs. Part of this was my fault as well as where I recorded it from. I only use an Ipod and usually place it close to me so of course the sax will be louder in the videos. But on the other hand, when I play backing with songs, the sax needs to be there in the mix, but not overtaking the lead guitar and vocals. This is where it is a must to lay off the volume of the sax (easier said than done!). When the sax solo comes up, BLAST AWAY! This is what he was referring to as far as my posts in regards to 2 different volumes. Hope this helps!

          #13838
          Anonymous

            Johnny – Thanks for filling me in on the reason why Classic music sheets are more notated dynamically than non-classic music sheets, as this seems to be the norm in the music industry when they sell their music sheets to the public.

            When i was doing my grade 2 last year, for the grade 2 stuff you only had simple dynamics – ie play 4 bars loud, or play 4 bars soft or play 4 bars normally,
            and the all the bars where played at the same volume – ie no rising/falling volumes.

            Then in January i started the grade 3 stuff, for the grade 3 stuff the dynamics suddenly upped their game – so now i have music sheets where in 1 bar, the volume goes from soft to high in the count of 3 & then falls in the 4th count in a 4/4 timing. Also the music is littered with p,f,mf,mp etc.

            I looked at one of the sheets my instructor gave me and said hang on this sheet has 6 different music volumes, at the moment i only know how to play soft, normal & loud.
            So how do i know how to play the difference in volume between mezza forte & forte? So he got me practising playing a scale of 8 notes from low c starting off very soft and then increasing the volume uniformly until i was playing very loud on the mid C, and doing the opposite loud to soft – that way i could get the feel for the different 6 volumes.

            The other thing as a beginner i found it hard to play a note for a count of 4 increasing from soft to loud at count 3 and then going soft at count 4. What i found to start off with when i was playing my way through the sheet, i was so concentrating on the dynamic volumes of the notes, that i was loosing track of the counting (multitasking). Looking through my pro notes on learning to play music professionally, they say to after breaking the music into bites, learn the notes in the bite, then learn the timing in the bite, then sing the bite, then start playing the bite slowly, then when you get up to speed in playing the bite, then bring in the dynamics for the bite last of all, and then do that for all the bites, then start playing the whole piece & link of the bites smoothly etc..

            Johnny – i look forward to when you have a theory section in your forum as i progress through my sax work, i’m sure more questions will rear themselves later on.
            thanks for you help as a pro who knows what he’s talking about.
            cheers – greatly appreciated
            sxpoet

            #13839
            Anonymous

              @jake – i played loads of guitar chords in a church band for several years & we used to have one eye on the sheet and the other eye on the conductor as the conductor would signal to us when to come in & when to play soft & when to play loud as a lot of the church music sheets i was given hardly had any dynamics in it.
              In the end i used to play it to the volume like if i was singing it which worked quite well.
              We did have the occasional prat in the band who wanted to blast his electric guitar out & no one could hear the wind section so he soon learnt his lesson and turned his volume down or he would have been kicked out. lol
              I was going to get back in the church band with my sax last December, but a lot of the church music sheets that i tried out at the time was too fast for me as a beginner.
              Hopefully by the end of the year i might give it another tryout.

              #13848
              paddy jordan
              Participant

                Hi Johnny
                i understand your reasoning with regards to the blank canvas,and that many of the members here ask you to keep things simple, i may be wrong but i also think there are many of us that also would like that more challenging tune.
                I am not saying not to carve things up into easy vs hard tunes, but as a suggestion it it might be interesting if you also add a sheet music with all the dynamics other embelishments and make it available along side the simplified version as a option for an additional cost.I know that i would find this useful to be able to compare and study the versions.any way just a thought Johnny.
                paddy

                #13849
                Dazza
                Participant

                  I think that idea could also fall into something Johnny said in response to some members idea recently to do a “lesson” along with some songs to explain how to learn a tune and begin to embellish it. Are there some basic rules for doing runs etc at the end of bars. Do you focus on the chord tones or do you throw in some chromatic enhancements? After i get the basic melody under my fingers and sounding good I am not sure what the next step is or could be. I have listened on youtube to a heap of songs and transcribed \some ideas I have heard which is cool. I feel another lesson series coming on Johnny…….! Cant wait for What Does It Take and the Improvisation lesson as this I am sure will give us plenty to attack for a while.

                  #13851
                  Anonymous

                    There’s lots of people on youtube who demonstrate how to play specific songs and their well worth watching you can pick up quite a few things as well, but you have to watch out as i’ve seen some of them are a bit lacking in their experience – but thats a good thing as it shows how much you know that they haven’t mastered properly.

                    In terms of your approach to learning a new song – the earlier you sortout your approach & apply that same routine to every new song will iron out in my case a lot of sloppy bad habits and increase the quality of your music a lot faster, as most of us are very limited to the amount of time we can spend on the sax. This will reduce a lot of wasted time believe me! So its an area well worth looking into. I’ve done some research into to this and i’ve taken that on board now and it makes for my learning a new song much less frustrating! Knowledge of chord theory does actually come under this heading – so as soon as i’ve completed my chord theory stuff then i will be able to apply that to the learning a song routine as that takes up a small percentage of it which i can’t include in it at the moment!

                    A lot of this stuff can get a bit too serious – but you have to bear in mind that this stuff is what all the pro’s do, so they are constantly looking at ways to get things covered in a shorter period of time as their time is very valuable too!

                    #13853
                    john
                    Keymaster

                      thanks for the input guys. lots to think about on this. I depend on this type of input because I’ve never watched a video on how to learn a song, and sxpoet, if you have one that you think is pretty good please send me the link so I can check it out. It may help me learn something, not in how to learn a song, but I mean in how one of these videos should go. I’d love to make such a video if some of you would get help from it.
                      I actually did one years ago but didn’t receive any comments or input from anyone so figured it wasn’t helpful.
                      As for notating the music either in a simplified version or more advanced, I actually did this in the “Use Me” tune. Again, I don’t know how many people that have downloaded this one actually used the basic skeleton version or the version that was written as a note-for-note transcription of what I played.
                      Another request I had was to include a backing track with my sax part on one of the channels so people could have control to either listen as they learned the song or not have my sax track in there at all. Again, after doing a few of these I had no feedback and I actually would forget to do this. So far no one has mentioned it on way or the other.

                      #13862
                      Anonymous

                        Hi Johnny, i can’t recommend a specific video.
                        I’m a learner to the sax and i picked up lots of useful tips from various sources, including watching videos, reading articles, what my instructor passed on to me, theory courses etc..

                        As a learner i initially just dived into the sheet & started playing the whole thing from start to end, and did that repeatedly hoping to improve on the next run through – sadly that resulted in me just getting better at repeating the errors. You were the 1st person to recommend breaking the music sheet into smaller parts & then just work on each of them – credit to you!! That vastly helped me – common sense everyone might say. But not to an absolute beginner like me.
                        I then had a flash back to my first driving lesson – where i was taught seat belt on, check hand brake on, gear in neutral, start engine, look over your shoulder etc..
                        I assumed there must be some sort of process/routine for a learner like me to adopt – in your case you’ve been doing it so long, that it comes to you naturally & you don’t even think about it?
                        What brought it fully to my attention was when i did my first sax grade – you have to do a sight reading test, where they give you a short piece of music you’ve never seen before & you play it demonstrate your level of experience. And to top it all they give short period of time to look it over & try bits of it out before playing through properly.
                        That’s when my instructor said make sure you do this & that before you do the proper run through as you’ll get a better mark.

                        So now i’ve broken the process down into 3 parts
                        1> examine the piece without the sax, so like in the sight reading test, what key is it in?, what are the 8 notes in the key? what time signature is it?
                        do i count it 1,2,3,4 or 1&2&3&4 or 1&a, 2&a? what parts do i play loud/soft/slurred etc? Are there any repeated sections to cut down learning?
                        A quick run through of mentally counting aloud each note in every bar. Is it in swing time? miss out any of these in a sight reading test isn’t very helpful.
                        Then comes your bit – pencil out & break the photocopied sheet down into small sections – which might be a few bars, a bar or a phrase depending on how difficult the piece is.
                        i can often spend half an hour doing part one depending on how tricky it is. For you all this would be plain sailing which you do without thinking?
                        2> this part is where you get the sax out & work each individual small piece – there must be tips you can provide on this? start slow? metronome slow?
                        basically get that piece played to an acceptable standard. Then bring in the dynamics – repeat process.
                        3> now play the whole piece, join up the small pieces, getting uniform flow from piece to piece etc. Here again you could add in more stuff that i’m not aware of?
                        how often to practice it? what speed to start at? what to do if things go wrong?
                        4> polish the final piece – any tips here?

                        These load of things that can be done, that i may not even be aware of? i’m sure you make 3 videos out of it?
                        But like i say it’s a beginners thing, and i’m still picking up tips here and there.

                      Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 11 total)
                      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.